Freedom Versus Conformity in Islam

I was bantering with my friend @NeoLegendX when he inadvertently brought up a topic that I thought was very interesting. Soon after, comments began to be deleted by either the channel Moderator or YouTube itself. Here’s the context of our conversation:

NeoLegendX: @A Berean any interesting topics you stumbled upon

A Berean: @NeoLegendX Bored?

NeoLegendX: @A Berean corona has us on lockdown
Cmon Braf
You know that
And here I thought we dont need to rehearse

A Berean: @NeoLegendX Some of us “old folk” still get to work, even in lockdown…

NeoLegendX: @A Berean its cause you in America
They only care about money there
You can be replaced by a Mexican next election
You are in your late 20s
You are not old

A Berean: @NeoLegendX I hope you’re joking, ’cause that was too funny! I think they work for the man in your country as well.

NeoLegendX: @A Berean well
To a degree they think of you as replaceable
Same with me
It’s the way
But yeah, we are slaves to the west world so we have to obey
We even were forced to hold our first ever LGBTQ parade
Made me sick

A Berean: @NeoLegendX You are slaves only to those who you allow to be your master(s). Now, if you were in KSA, they’d hand you cash just for having a pulse! Regarding your LGBTQ parade, you don’t have to go to it nor watch it. There is debauchery everywhere there is freedom. You can limit debauchery, but then you’d have to limit freedom and rule by fear. As Mahmoud Ahmadinejad once famously boasted, “In Iran we don’t have homosexuals like in your country.” Quite true. They tend to suffer from rapid deceleration after falling off rooftops — or deceleration with their neck inconveniently caught in a noose..

NeoLegendX: @A Berean seems like I’m getting deleted

But you know my standings on those 2

Ship all them to America

It was then that my reply was deleted as well. Since it was deleted and I didn’t have a copy, I recreated it as best I could here:

A Berean: @NeoLegendX I don’t think shipping them to America is much of a solution. You inadvertently brought up the reason why the West tends to lump Islamic countries in with totalitarian ones. Strictly ordered societies must reduce freedom and rule by fear — I don’t see a way around it. If Islam requires submitting to Allah’s will (willingly or unwillingly), and we know from the Quran that a good portion of society will not submit, your choices for maintaining Islamic “peace” are limited. Devout Muslims are fine with submitting. Nominal Muslims will conform outwardly from fear or social pressure but inwardly will be ambivalent or even bitter towards Islam. Non-Muslims can live as dhimmi, be “shipped to America” (eg. emigrate), or risk death. This is a broad stroke depiction, but I think it is consistent with what I read in the Islamic source texts.

I invite @NeoLegendX (or anyone else) to continue the conversation, without YouTube censorship. Where am I wrong about this?

25 thoughts on “Freedom Versus Conformity in Islam

  1. Have you ever wondered why so many restrictions in the torah for Israel. 

    Islam doesn't forbid freedom.  But if you care about someone you do not let them go and follow the babylonian system or orgies, sexing anything they want, drugs, drinks and all that. Much of what you say you are against is in your bible. It's just my people have more balls to implement…most of the law. You really proud of your society where the shikse are out blowing anyone for attention. Homosexuals are mentally Ill people. If you let them implement their ways soon you will have the same society as the west does.

    People think it's so great there. It's just a place full of fat mentally and spiritually sick people.


    It's nice that we can talk about other things besides the trinity or Paul 

    • Societies through the ages have always had rules. In Western democracies, these rules are balanced by the desire to allow as much liberty as possible. A common adage is "my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins." The CoVID-19 virus is testing this as personal liberties are temporarily (hopefully?) removed for the good of the many.

      But, in an Islamic society, where do you draw the line? If you were to follow the sunnah of your prophet, things would be vastly different than they are now. Do you like music? Sorry, that is haram. There are countless things you currently do that don't follow the sunnah of your prophet. Furthermore, how does obeying a list of do's and don'ts make you righteous, where I'd define being righteous as doing the right thing when you aren't compelled by some external force to do it?

  2. Ah see, there is the problem. You think liberalism is the solution to your freedom problem. 

    You seem to be focusing on Islamic law, but how is islam law different than Christian or Jewish law exactly. It cant go below 80% in similarities no matter where you put it.

    You have been give the law from God,  you do as he says.  If there is an exception, you can flex it. That's it.

    What? You think you know better than God. 

    Why would I listen to music 

    I dont want to, and Islam says that, but the ones who made the case for why not were Christians. 

    All this devil worshipping in it, kabbalah witchcraft. Music literally drains my energy. It gives me headache.

    People bitch about freedom all day. Late at night freedom gets beaten, raped, robbed and the cops that write it dow ask why were you out late at nigh, why were you at his place alone. Liberals are nothing more then Simps for feminists. 

    And this is partly because the bible says,or Paul, who knows who implemented that jesus loves all. Which just a mystic, kabbalah insertion of hathor.

    So it's good to be liberal, even tho the law is against it. Dont look my people for proof. Look at your jews.why are they then in disagreement with you and in an agreement with us if it's so great. 

    It's just brainwashing from the other side.

    You actually telling me, that you would approve of your daughter being free as the women of the west are. What if she ends up in porn. That ain't normal.

    • I don't know how you are using the term "liberalism" but I don't think I fit in that category. And what is "Christian law", anyway? I know about the Torah, that it was made for a specific people and a specific time. The prophet Jeremiah foretold a day when the Law would be abrogated.

      “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”   Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV

       That new covenant was put in place by Jesus.

      And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”   Luke 22:19-20

       Paradoxically, this actually resulted in a expansion of the Law from prohibiting actions to judging thoughts and motives.

      (Jesus said) “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”   Matthew 5:21-22 ESV

      (Jesus said) “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”   Matthew 5:27-28 ESV

      Essentially, this expansion places everyone under penalty of death. Jesus' solution was to institute a new covenant through his death to redeem Man from the clutches of sin and death. Piling up law upon law is foolish and will not accomplish the will of God. It will only show how depraved Man is.

  3. Gods law, his word, do not change. 

    It was good enough for abraham and his children to follow 

    It was good enough for jackob and his children to follow 

    It was good enough for the followers of moses, david, Solomon, jesus, Muhammad to follow 

    It's good enough for me and you

    What that covenant is I have no idea 

    What I'm look is the contradictions between abraham, moses, jesus,  Muhammad. The law does not change. Yes, some of the restrictions are gone cause the rest of the nations did not deserve to be under them like Israel was. Jesus died for no one according to those stories. 

    The idea to crucifie him was from the pharisees, to ask the Roman's to do it, to the people wanting it to somehow God thinking it's a great idea I let this happen. I'm gonna brutally torture and murder, by bribes claim, my son to forgive these people for nothing in the centuries to come. Not to mention sending him to hell only to crown satan later king of the world to let him go. Brutal


    The shariah law is the law that was in the torah, without its restrictions.  Which is just word play, semitic word play. It's the eternal law of God. 

    1st command,  we oblige by it

    2nd, same 

    5th same

    9th same

    Go through their mitzvah 

    Many similar 


    How dastardly of you spin the tables, mugsy

    • Your response is overly simplistic. What Law did Adam and Eve have? Noah? Abraham? None of them had the Torah. To say "It was good enough for them, so it's good enough for me" is nonsensical. Islamic law goes against Mosaic law in many aspects. If God's Law delivered through Moses was eternal and unchangeable, why didn't Muhammad just affirm it? Actually, he did.

      Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: A group of Jews came and invited the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.

      He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi'(No. 4431).   Sunan Abu Dawud 4449

      So Muhammad is affirming the authority of the Torah, putting it on the seat of judgement. Yet are Muslims required to keep Kosher? Nope. Are the same foods permitted and prohibited? Nope. Are most of the other Laws in the Torah observed by Muslims? Nope. You mention the 10 commandments. Again, overly simplistic. The Torah is much, much more. You consider it "corrupt", which even Muhammad didn't do.

      Jesus foretold his death and gave the reason for it on numerous occasions. It was also prophesied in the O.T. Yes, God knew it was going to happen and He allowed it, but, in another sense, it was in His divine plan all along, which is a good thing for us. As it is, without Jesus' atonement, you will die in your sins — they are that overwhelming. As the prophet Isaiah said:

      We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.   Isaiah 64:4 ESV

      The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
          to see if there are any who understand,
          who seek after God.

      They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
          there is none who does good,
          not even one.   Psalm 14:2-3 ESV

      You mention mitzvah. That is rabbinic interpretation done in the Middle Ages, over two millennia after the law was given. As for the Quran and Sunnah, Muslims have over 1,400 years of fiqh from many different schools. Which one has the law that, if you keep it, will grant you jannah?

  4. Scrolls of abraham 

    Noah laws

    Adam's instructions 

    There there, don't worry 

    This is the problem others have. While we do recognize the Torah…that was given to moses. Quran states some parts were changed.

    I'm sleepy to continue…I'll see ya tomorrow 

  5. Let's take music as an example. You say it is haram and you personally don't listen to it. Fine. Here's a detailed fatwah that agrees with your position. On the other hand, you have this article that talks about a study that shows that music can be beneficial.

    Over 7,500 people across eight countries including Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt, participated in the survey.

    Are all these people kafir as the fatwah boldly declares? What about other aspects of the sunnah that you don't happen to agree with? Are you the arbiter of what is haram or halal? I listened to a Q&A with Mufti Menk and he seemed to equivocate. While generally declaring music haram, he reserved most of his indignation for modern pop music with sexual overtones. He finished off his answer by saying that whatever you do, Allah will forgive.

    Christians avoid sin by keeping in step with the Holy Spirit. If I do something that would create distance in my relationship with God, the Holy Spirit informs me immediately, and I can repent and restore the relationship immediately. It seems that this is a much better system than "don't touch this" or "don't do that", especially when you don't have a reason for your action other than a fatwah. What do you think?

    • Everything is fine, except the politicians are bickering over "pork" as usual. It isn't haram for either political party, but they each want their own kinds for their own people. In most countries, it is simply labeled C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N. Such is the way of the world…

  6. The economy will take a great hit. We should probably save up on money. And I never keep money in the bank. I know how to do business. 

  7. I dont need to watch it, I know he doesn't give heed to conspiracy theories. Neither do thecrest of the more prominent ones. I dont know why.

    This virus was man made. Punishment would be letting you die unrepenting. Just look at the laws implemented and read the NWO agendas. We are in end times. God didn't made these people chose satanism.

    You look up the trending of the veneration of the females to make men pathetic.  I could go on about this but this is no punishment.  Just humans being evil. All this nonsense about America and China being enemies.  That's just bull. They have many mutual interests 

    Just be careful. People will be sacrificed soon

    • I'm not sure how the video relates to conspiracy theories. Dr. Qadhi is a respected scholar who used the Quran in the video to back up the claim that Allah was employing CoVID-19 to get Man's attention. It doesn't appear that you agree with him, but yet you are comfortable going against the Quran (assuming he rightly exegeted the passages he chose). This is very confusing to me.

      Enjoy your walk!

    • How was your long walk? I haven't been out of the house in 3 days. I discovered this thing called "DoorDash" that delivers food from local restaurants. It's been around for awhile, but I'm generally a late adopter. Supporting our local economy while remaining social distancing — the best of both worlds!

      Today, I watched episode two of The Chosen, a made for TV series covering the life of Jesus from the perspective of those around him. They add backstory that isn't in the Bible, but they try to insure that everything in the series that intersects with the Bible or local culture is hyper accurate. It is well done and very entertaining. You can view the first episode here. At any rate, I how you are faring well.

  8. It has been good. I even got to play some basketball.  But now even more restrictions are placed so I will be ducking cops. I'm not gonna be locked in. I will get out and take runs and play some ball. This is nuts. This corona is just a cover for the recession we were heading towards. They were warning us years prior.


    I'm currently watching some animated romance, to get me crying a bit. Cant remember the last biblical thing I watched other than messiah. I might try that one. Seems we will be getting time

    • So that's your solution? Try shadow banning me, and if that doesn't work, delete the thread? As John said "The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." John 1:5 ESV You won't be able to overcome it either, Neo.

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