A Conversation with @Rain

This conversation occurred in January/February 2023 based on this @Allegation Hunter video. Since the video was about reasons Islam was true, I decided to bring up the Quran’s explanation and purpose of meteors. It went something like this (click the image to display in its own window):

At this point, I believe the Moderator of @Allegation Hunter was shadow banning responses from both @A Berean and @Rain. Either that, or the YouTube algorithm was getting really wonky. The point @Rain was making is that there is a difference between the “how” of something, which science can explain, and the “why” of something, which may be of a supernatural/spiritual origin. I believe that Farid Alkhajah of @FaridResponds uses a similar argument when a conflict occurs, namely that the miraculous side of a natural phenomena is a “metaphysical matter” — there is simply no explanation. Stop trying to figure it out!! Eventually, @Rain decided to come onto InvitationToGrace to invite me to appear on Hamza’s Den. This is where the conversation resumes…

4 thoughts on “A Conversation with @Rain

  1. Hello again,

    You said your comments were  removed from YouTube so here I am on your website and I want to invite you to join the next Arena on Hamzas Den


    We were discussing the idea that science deals with the how not the why and I am looking forward to hearing your response about how you want to twist that idea to make Islam wrong.


    I got to say you argue from an atheistic position and I was surprised that you're a Christian.



  2. Hi Rain,

    I am familiar with Hamzas Den and at least some of the regular hosts. I'm hesitant to enter a four-on-one environment that isn't moderated by someone who is at least trying to be unbiased. That said, I think it is an excellent idea for you to go on the channel and play the role of someone familiar with the ayat, ahadith, sirat and tafsir and contemporary Islamic apologetic. Then come back here and lets have an online back-and-forth discussion!

    I much prefer one-on-one and I like text exchanges because sometimes I don't think well on my feet. The text mode also is more like a moderated debate, where one topic can be discussed at a time without getting heated.

    With regard to your statement that I'm taking an Atheistic position, I would counter to say that I do believe in the supernatural and miracles, but meteor showers aren't one of them. A lot of people use the term "miracle" or "supernatural" rather loosely. To me, a miracle cannot be just a low probability event, but it must also violate the laws of nature. Even with that, I've seen magic tricks that appear miraculous — even when I know nothing supernatural took place — so I remain open to naturalistic possibilities even if I can't explain how something took place. I don't default to the "god of the gaps" argument.

    I appreciate your courage for leaving a comment and look forward to further discussions on this or any other topic of your choice! Have a great day!


    • Hello,

      I suggested that you join them because unfortunately I am not free these days to reply to comments its around 4 am here and I just finished work and I hoping you excuse my delayed response.

      I would like for you to go into hamzes den on his solo streams which he does a lot.

      And bring up all the points and he will be able to provide you with the information you need to get closer to the truth.

      I think this is my final message to you so I want to thank you for taking the time to discuss with me and I will end this with asking Allah to guide us to the truth.


      And one thing I want to clarify I am saying you argue like an atheist because you do not depend on scripture or reference it as much there was no indication that you were a Christian while we talked.


      Anyways wish you the best.




      • Hi Rain,

        I’ll consider Hamza’s Den, but I’d choose a one-on-one casual correspondence over verbal confrontation any day of the week, wouldn’t you? I don’t see how entering into Hamza’s Den would be anything less than doing battle. I mean, the logo says it all (see Daniel 6).

        For me, it doesn’t make sense to quote scripture with a Muslim since most believe that the Christian and Jewish scriptures have been corrupted. In the case of meteor showers, science is the best option. References are plentiful and the phenomenon is well understood.

        You said this earlier:

        We were discussing the idea that science deals with the how not the why and I am looking forward to hearing your response about how you want to twist that idea to make Islam wrong.

        I’m not sure how I twisted that idea. Often the “what/how” and “why” are intermingled and are hard to tease apart. In Islam, one can say the “what/how” is that angels hurl flaming missiles at eavesdropping jinn. The “why” is to prevent them from eavesdropping or at best to hear incomplete plans.

        From a science point of view, the “what/how” is that asteroids hit the atmosphere at around 100 km in altitude and start to glow and break up. The “why” is because the earth happened to cross their path.

        Thus, we have two competing ideas, both of which cannot be true. Science describes a natural phenomena governed by Kepler’s laws of planetary motion that is verifiable. Islam describes a supernatural phenomena that is unverifiable. I don’t see how a distinction between “what/how” and “why” adds to the conversation.

        I’ve enjoyed our discussion and sincerely wish only the best for you. May both of us grow in truth and love as we seek to know and love God. Feel free to come by, read some articles, and perhaps strike up a conversation on a topic of your choice!

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